tv MSNBC Live MSNBC June 28, 2012 11:00am-12:00pm EDT
keep talking and yapping about health care the next couple of months, romney will be off message and he won't like it. can i argue with that? chris, i think this is a case at what is not going to be taken away but what is goingç to be done to you. no health care benefits, virtually none that have actually taken place yet, nobody is feeling them yet until 2014 if you are mitt romney, one of the central arguments is that this president has expanded government, he has created new entitlements and so doing, actually hurt economic security you made it harder for people to create jobs. i don't think he goes back on that he announced over a year ago this week, central premise was i'm going to repeal the health care law. so, i don't think that that argument diminishes just because it was found to be constitutional t can be constitutional and still be a bad idea. this is still going to be the battleground of politics, particularly because you can be opposed to health care and not take a benefit from someone. that's why time is of the essence. once this thing gets hold it is very hard to take something away
once it has been given. nobody has really been given anything yet. >> we are going to hear from the president at some point later today about this. david gregory, thanks to you. chris matthews, andrea mitch, chuck todd. much more from all of them. look this is the decision. people are still reading it. we are still getting the details. but the headline clearly is that the supreme court has upheld the signature achievement of barack obama's presidency, which is the health care law. it largely does stand. that's going to do it for me. i'm chris jansing. thomas roberts is up next. thomas? >> great hour. as i'm watching you, i'm reminded of what the vice president had to say back in march of 2010 this is is a big deal. >> shall i give this? >> hand it over and keep going here. hi, everybody, great to have you ãm%q!jujip &h(lc% thomas roberts, breaking news this hour, our agenda is the immediate reaction to today's groundbreaking decision from the supreme court which just ruled to uphold the health care law, the president's signature
legislation, truly a defining moment for health care in this country, a decision that impacts millions of americans from the cradle to the grave and a ruling that will have a monumental impact on the future of this presidential race. we are weight, as chris pointed out, reangst from the president expect to come sooner rather than later. and congress, john boehner give his first remarks this hour. mitt romney also in washington, d.c., delivering remarks at the bottom of the hour. he said just last night that people at the white house people were losing sleep, now likely, they are high fiving and celebrating and of course, we will be getting reaction from you, you be the american people. but first, the supreme court deciding 5-4 with chief justice john roberts siding with the liberal voices on the court that the heart of the health care law, the individual mandate, will stay in place. but it will become a tax under the authority of congress. and political reaction is pouring in on this issue, one of the leading comments off the stop house minority leader, nancy people lohse, tweeting "victory for the american people. millions of american families
and children will have certainty of health care benefits plus affordable care." now for the political impact of this decision, get our very own melissa harris perry, the host of melissa harris-perry, the show weekend mornings on msnbc, to weigh in on this as we just heard from david gregory talking to chris jansing, the fact this hasn't taken effect, so there iç still a priority on the right to have this repealed. >> there is the issue of the american people and how the american people feel about it but two other really important things we have to remember. one, mitt romney is on the record supporting an individual mandate. looking just this morning at his 2006 language, march 6 of 2006, where he says that he was very pleased to see an individual manda mandate included in the massachusetts bill. he calls it a personal responsibility principle. if he decides to run against the
court or president obama fundamentally on individual mandate, they are going to play this over and over and over again. the second thing is, look stlarngs incentive for insurance companies here, now this is a constitutionally accurate policy, valid policy, an insurance company, you have an incentive now to offer kind of a low-cost policy, kind of a major medical, catastrophic policy that young people would buy into the sort of policy you get for your car, not all the full coverage but just in case something really bad happens. that is money in the pockets of insurance companies, they are going to be clear about that. not going to want a presidential candidate whose role to immediately repeal that i think romney's campaign drops this very, very quickly. >> what do you think that president obama does? wait willing reaction for him you not to be outdone, from eric holder. interesting timing for these
happening, the bigç headline i what the u.s. supreme court did. >> for president obama, the idea that it was robert who joined the majority, enormous political win. huge. had this been a 5-4 with kennedy, still would have sounded like lynn ral court, liberal president but with robert siding with the capacity of the federal government to do this and also as far as i can tell on the medicaid thing, you can't create an enincentive that is coercion for states to opt-in, a huge political win for the president. the way the white house will manage this is not spiking a ball in the end zone, they are going to have to manage it carefully, say it is not a victory for us it is a victory for the american people that this lead us to now thinking even more about access. going to have to explain to the american people. >> as a constitutional scholar, isn't it important we didn't present something to the american people, to congress, to
the u.s. supreme court that we wouldn't feel upheld. didn't do all this work, 18 months, invest all this political capital for nothing? >> president obama just became the only contemporary, the only modern president, we have been talking about substantial health care reform in this country, since fdr. he is the first president in modern contemporary time to get meaningful reform to american health care through, pert. no matter what happens beyond this, this is an enormous victory, not only for the president, for his administration, advisers, the solicitor general, but i think m the american people. >> we look at this right now, a victory in this moment but not something that people are going to really feel the effects of until 2014. if president obama is not back in that white house, this will go away. >> i'm not sure. had presidents who ran against, think ronald reagan, ran against the department of education. the fact is it is really,
really, really hard to kill a government law, particularly once it has been determined constitutional and especially, again if there are business interests that benefit from it. that relationship of business profits and the stickiness of government reg lakers i got to tell you, extremely difficult to rule that. >> back to our coverage, chuck todd, andrea mitchell and chris matthews joining us from d.c. i hear the president is going to be coming out with his reaction and address at 12:15? >> he is and i think you are going to hear him make -- talk about the most popular parts of the health care law, talk about now that the political challenges are behind them. some states have been delaying things that need to be done to implement the law, putting in exchanges, this and that and basically doing it on political lines, states governed on the republican side you can weight and weight and waiting for the supreme court no longer that weight, someing i want to agree with melissa on.
you will see more implementation of the architecture that needs to be put in place on the state level in order to get this law off and running whenç it's ful implemented in 2014. and so again, i go back to -- i will be surprised, you're seeing a lot of republican reaction today saying they are going too make the november election about this. this means this. raising hundreds of thousands of dollars since the supreme court decision that is fine with their base, how long do they want to talk about this? i have talked to strategists on both side of the aisle who say there is fatigue thought in the american people on this issue. 9 more you want to talk about it politically, you have had not one but two political fights, one in congress and the supreme court, there is fatigue there the voters may penalize you if you keep talking about it and
the losing side. >> we have not heard exactly when we are going to hear from mitt romney for his exact reaction. sean spicer, communications director for the rnc joins me now from outside the supreme court. sean what is your reaction? obviously, a win is a win for the obama administration. >> thomas, good morning. i think today it was ruled tt obama care is constitutional. the voters will have a choice to vote on whether or not to fully repeal obama care in terms of the policy. today we set up a stark contrast for the november elections, president that wants to implement this health care bill that costs more. the court confirm today the man state a tax and it is going to -- already shown to allow fewer choice in the healthç ca market. mitt romney made it very clear that on day one, he will repeal obama care and common sense reforms and health care that addressed theproblems, allow for greater choice, more
opportunity, better health care, without putting government in the middle of -- between patients and their doctors. >> when we talk about the money though, according to the cbo, a bipartisan office, the congressional budget office, the law's expected to spend a bit over $1 trillion the next ten years there are spending cuts which do fall on medicare, tax increases expected to save or raise a bit more than that which is why the cbo estimates that it will slightly reduce the deficit. then as we look at this going down the line into the future, they say as time goes on, the savings are projected to grow more quickly that the spending and the cbo expects the law will cut the deficit by $1 trillion notice second decade. how do you expect to get mitt romney, a man considered to be the godfather of getting health care passed in massachusetts into the white house to repeal this when that was his greatest piece of legislation as governor? >> well, first thing, what governor romney did in massachusetts, need very clear, was for massachusetts. he has made very clear, as most republicanens believe, states should do what is best for
states. the federal government does not need to get involved in a national mandate and governor romney has been 100% consistent that states should go what is best for their individual states and not necessarily put that on the -- burdenen on the entire country. second, with respect to the cost, you are right. the obama care cut $500 billion out of medicare that seniors depend on. two, itaised significant taxes that every american is now going vhat every american is now going three with respect toot the cb everybody recognize us that the democrats put serious constraints on how the cbo's ability to score that was portray sod it gave the best possible outlook. there is no one that can honestly believe this isn't going to add additional trillions of dollars to our deficit and raise the household cost for every family and business that's out there i think that is the other aspect on this, thomas. right now, job creators, we have a problem. the president took his eye off the ball the first couple of years, instead of focus on the economy and jobs said i'm going to focus on health care. right now, job creators are
saying one of the biggest inhib births to hire morgue people is this law. so you know, i'm not sure how today can anything be but a bad sign for the economy and american families who are struggling already. chris, what do you make? >> that is his job, basically say the best you can say when you lose that day. the republicans counting on a 5-4 decision against this law, hoping they could high five today the way the president is high fiving by saying we have been saying all along this president is illegitimate, behaving unconstitutionally. the supreme court ruled we were right all along, proven right. and today, they have a different result no one predaktd 5-4 decision for the president with the chief justice, pointed by george w. bush, by the way,
here is bush coming in, the supreme court led by republicans, here he is basically responsible by having appointed john robert to the court to be chief justice, this is a strange day. clearly a strange day for the president, goes in the history books, having been the first democratic president, any president of either party, going back to teddy roosevelt, to achieve health care and now got it in the books, ratified as constitutional. that is a fact outlive this election, discussions. the other fact is the republican party is missing a weapon they expected to have today by noon which is a weapon they could use to hurt th president between now and election day. they don't have that weapon. i disagree with anybody who thinks rom think? going to ride on the health care bill. romney did the prototype in massachusetts, he is suspect on the right on this issue. we will not talk about it any
more than he has to his issue is job creation, not health care, the president's won this thing. it has been -- not a slamdunk but pretty close to it. he has the points to win this fight and i tell you could have been a bad day for the president. i think it is a good die for the president. >> melissa, do you think this caught people by shock, flat footed to what the expectations, the anticipations of what this decision rule be would be? >> i got to say in terms of sort of reading around all the experts preparing;h#or this da most of what folks were expecting, they would strike down individual mandate but uphold much of the rest but by striking down individual mandate, it would be sort of the thread that allowed the rest of the sweat to unravel. i got to say the notion it was upheld -- and upheld specifically for tat least a plurality under the commerce clause and roberts allowing it to be upheld as part of the taxing power of the u.s.
congress is not only good for the -- you know, the president and the admin station and the politics of it. i think it is good for sort of reasserting the right relationship between the federal government and the states. you niece lot of us who have thought about issues of civil rights and so many other things that rest fundamentally on the commerce clause had a great deal of anxiety that striking this down under the commerce claws would many other things like the civil rights act would be up for grabs. i'm a little gid guy that's expect today. >> let's get everybody a chance to catch up to where we are now on our coverage, the supreme court decided 5-4 in its ruling to uphold the president's signature legislation, the health care ruling, the mandate stays intact. we are expecting john boehner to give his reaction to this coming up here shortly within the next 10r 15 minutes, then we know that mitt romney has now said he will give his reaction at 11:45. then we do have confirmation that the president will be speaking to the american people at 12:15 from the east room of
the white house. andrea mitch, you are still with us in washington, d.c., i want to get your -- andrea had to go forgive me. i want to get -- chris and melissa is with me. make sure i got -- know who is here. chris, let's go back to you in washington, d.c., as i asked melissa about everybody being caught flat footed, there was this "wall street journal" report this morning the president prepared three speeches, ready to go you know, proper preparation prevents poor performance. so, ready to fire at whatever the ruling would be. do you think this caught people offguard by thinking roberts would side with the consertive judges? >> the real surprise you 5-4 for the president, a thought, a long time now, 5-4 against or 6-3 in favor. the fact that anthony kennedy, the predictable swing vote, replaced basically sandra day o'connor as the swing vote went against the president but leapfrogging him to the left is the chief justice.
nobody predicted this. nobody. chief justice john roberts would move over and add his voice and his vote to the liberal minority so you have a 5-4 decision no one expected. no one at all predicted this result today i will go back to two reasons why i think he looked for this route to go through the tax law. and one is i think he did not want to see a three strikes you're out situation for the republican court, where having made the bush president and then basically legit mizing big corporate givings to campaigns, unlimited contributions, he basically didn't want to do a third. secondly, i really stick to this. i think there is a moral issue in the back of these judges, like john roberts, his family, his life. they look at this and say do we want tonight people that have killed the only health care bill this country has ever had truly before it? there's not going to be an alternative plan down the road. this is it. needed to be a financial mechanism for the pre-existing conditions for the young adults and all that. this is it. the only game in town.
had he been the one to strike this down, i think there was a concern, a moral concern he would be killing the chances for the country to have a health care plant i believe that led him to try to find a constitution a.m. route here, which he did find in the tax law. >> more the solicitor general or john roberts? >> opposite. i think he was a better solicitor for the president than the solicitor general. i think roberts found the answer f this is another way of doing something, new kind of seamsmanship, you make the worst possible sales pitch knowing the other guy is smart enough to find out what you are not saying, boy that is brilliance. that is brilliance. nobody is that smart, to be purposely stupid so the other guy will feel himself smart by coming up with what you should have said, the tax law. i don't want to be sarcastic but that's just too much to believe, i think. >> i wanted to let everybody know -- >> melissa knows more than i know but i thk that would be an incredible ploy to say okay i'm stupid, you're smart, say what i should have said and i will get what i want.
>> i'm looking out of the corner of my eye, not sure we can show everybody that shot, just getting, there we go the podium ready for mitt romney to come out, making sure that the repeal and replace obama care template we got there with the velcro is working. >> he needs to repeal it. he is going to need 60 votes in the senateç to repeal. in idea he walk us in there, the stroke of a pen gets the health care bill, still has to operate in the constitution. >> let's move forward on that as we talk about that and the salesmanship going to go into 2014 of repeal and replace, a lot of talk about repeal, not a lot of talk about replace. the effort has been to eliminate this and not try to do anything to, as chris points out, to give something tangible to the american people moving forward. >> let's be really clear. something a president do on the first day, by executive orderer there some powers vested in the u.s. presidency. repealing a peas of legislation and this sort of piece of legislation is just not within the president's power as a day
one activity. so when mitt romney says if i was president romney, i would repeal and replace on day one that is ridiculous. president obama managed to get this passed through the u.s. house and senate. these issues of long-term consequence he is and the morality and ethics issues that chris just brought up for the supreme court, double that by the fact one would be standing for re-election. yes, we are talking about a 2012 leeks. we are talking about 2014 when everything goes into place. that is when a third of the u.s. senate and every u.s. member of the house of representatives will be up for reelection do they want to run on we repealed health care but did not replace it with anything, which is basically impos doibl in that period of time? no, they don't. i got to say this is day one. they are going to come n they are going(tn say it is a big tax, ultimately, i think the romney campaign is going to move
away from a repeal and replace and toward a jobs, jobs, jobs discourse. say, look if the president is going to give you a big tax, make you buy health care, we have got to be able to get you some jobs. this is not a wind winning strategy for them. >> is this a pendulum swing for the president moving forward into the elections? [ inaudible ] this steals the attention and headline fo this morning? >> we will see what he does. gone against him, i don't thank you good place for a him to go to at noontime today the president just declared, in affect, unconstitutional himself, a hard place to fight back from. football game, 2-yard life. here he is on his own field, moving ahead, proved constitutional by a republican chief justice, again appointed by george w. bush. he is in pretty good -- i don't think i could imagine a better
result for him than the one he got today. it was much bet per and professor harris i'm sure knows this, we will -- hopefully agree with me, having kennedy on your side is having one thing but having the chief justice on your de, take the chief justice. that's big one. >> melissa, you agree with that the fact that this was unexpected from roberts? >> right, you take the chief justice, who was appointed by gush, a chief justice who has been roundly criticized for overseeing a court that has made nearly all its decisions 5-4, decisions that haveç fundamentally impacted the election through citizens united, that fundamentally impacted a prior leeks with the bush v -- excuse me, the supreme court had made a prior decision with bush v gore and then you put on top of that that this supreme court chief justice roberts. my bet is he wanted a 6-3 here. talking about him leapfrogging kennedy. we may never know what happened behind the scenes.
my bet is he would have ked to have joined kennedy and a 6-3 decision. remember, members of the court do not stand for election, not thinking about their political futures. they are thinking about their legacy. they are thinking about how they will go down in the history books, what people will say about them. a bunch of 5-4 decisions that seem to narrow the power of the federal government, i got to tell you is not the kind of thing that typically goes down well. >> hard not to think about the court being partisan, we think who has appointed them and put them in the place of this position of power. chris, when we talk about citizens united though and that ultimately giving the right to the 1% of this country to may buy this election for mitt romney in 2014 that could ultimately unrail this, undo this.ç
>> there is no competition here t is overwhelmingly negative. all people heard of the ads, the super pacs and other organizations out there trashing this piece of legislation. as chuck todd said, get up tomorrow morning, watch the evening news, watch msnbc, get up tomorrow morning and think, wait a minute, were we being sold a bad story about this bill? it truly is constitutional? it was upheld by the chief justice. maybe we haven't been getting true advertising out there on the bill all these months. maybe there will be a shift back toward the center on this bill, and won't be as much of a handicap to the president as it looked coming into today. >> all seriousness, your reactionpaul's. because something on the supreme court declare something to be
constitutional does not make it so. the whole thing remains unconstitutional. while the court may have erroneously come to the conclusion it is allowable, nothing to make this mandate or government takeover of our health care right. >> my jaw dropped. we have been getting a lot of response, most what you would expect from either side, nancy pelosi very positive things to say about the decision, lindsey graham, not so much, but this from rand paul, to say that because a couple people on the supreme court declared something to be constitutional does not make it so is simply inaccurate. in fact, when a couple of people on the supreme court declare something to be constitutional it is, in fact, constitutional t is how our government operates. it is part of what has been, yoç know, obviously distressing for folks on the left, progressives, looked at decisions they have been unhappy with from the court coming out, whether the immigration decisions on monday or whether it was about citizens united. the but the fact is once they are determined constitution a.m., only the supreme court can
make them -- doesn't make them good or bad policy but it does, in fact, make them constitutional. rand paul was wrong. >> by the way, you get rand paul on and put him on -- ask him where he stood on the '64 civil rights bill, would you that have passed constitutional review by his lights? ask him where he stood on the brown case? was there inherent problem in the constitution, separate but equal. ask him about that one. public school prayer. roe v wade. every landmark decision since the second world war, he didn't like the decision. this is not news. >> since his interview with rachel. >> actually exactly -- the point that chris is making right here about the 1964 civil rights act exactly the thing that had so many of us with our stomachs clenched around this issue, had the commerce clause decision been determined against the individual mandate in a very broadway, it could have meant undermining some of what made that '64 civil rights act
possible. >> we want to go now to peter alexander. he is standing by and traveling with the romney campaign. we have been saying, mitt romney is expected to share his reaction coming up here shortly at 11:45. have you started to hear things trickling out from the campaign aides, what we will all here? >> they have been mum what we are going to hear!vrom the governor himself. that, as you know, thomas, happen about 15 minutes from now. what we have heard from the campaign is the course of the last hour or so, they have raised, as they describe it organically, more than $200,000, a fund raising effort, they say, to try to repeal obama care. we can see where the podium is set up only a short distance from where i'm standing. governor romney was very confident when we heard from him yesterday saying likely the folks at the white house aren't sleeping real well these days. his challenge now is they were unable, health care opponents unlikely to convince the justices, now romney trying to convince millions of americans to repeal this law politically.
he does have a challenge on his hands as well. a conversation a lot of americans will be talking about the course of the next several months, specifically in massachusetts, he was behind the health care law there and mandate on which obama care was inspired. even rick is santorum in march, health care law, mitt romney was the worst republican in the country to put up against barack ama saying he was uniquely disqualified prosecute this fight u has a couple challenges on his hands. this law not okay but massachusetts was okay and the other trying to convince people he is the best candidate to beat barack obama. they will argue that barack obama by focus on the health care law for three and a half years, first three and a half years of his campaign, failed his responsibility, a moral failure, as it was described by mitt romney, to help.
>> we will watch and wait for mitt romney as they set up that shot. joining the conversation now is the host and moderator of nbc's "meet the press," david gregory. as you are listening to peter talk about the fact that there were people in the primaries saying that mitt romney is the worst person to put up against barack obama because of what he did as governor of massachusetts, how does the romney campaign pivot on the supreme court's decision to say we are still the best team and i am, mitt romney, the best candidate to take on president obama even though the fact this has been deemed to be morally valid? >> constitutional. i don't think mitt romney would agree it is morally valid. court's opinion doesn't make judgments whether this is sound policy, they are making a constitutional call here what the supreme court is doing, number one. two, i think there's no question that mitt romney stood up for the individual mandate as a
necessary part of comprehensive reform. he said they should try such enterprises, not done on the federal level and not this watch i think another interesting aspect of this we will be covering all day long, thomas, the role of the chief justice a huge figure in the country because of the decision here a lot of discussion i have been mon energy the legal community, i talk to people about how this is going to be received. will he be seen as someone protecting his legacy? integrityç of the court as a constitution and will he be a considered a sellout. judge silverman sits on the d.c. circuit, a proud conservative in legal circles. he upheld the health care law under the commerce clause, not the tax policy of congress and its ability to levy taxes. other conservatives have done the same. there is not a monolithic view
within conservative thought whether and how this can be upheld. there is a lot of discussion among lawyers and judges if this is the right decision and how roberts will be seen. >> i talked about morally valid, what i meant is if mitt romney is using the language this economy is a moral failure because the president invested 18 months into health care reform, it knocks that argument down, the fact this is being upheld by the supreme court. this is not a failure in terms of what the president's administration was able to acamp plish. >> generally speaking lead the candidates to argue moral iity good's will and purpose.ç
>> the romney campaign just get got a little bit easier for a him today because they can run against the whole thing. boehner already said they are going to have a vote to repeal it in the house july 9th, more political theater but what i find interesting in all of this is that you have 26 attorneys general across the country who wanted to go after this and not one of them stood, at least it appears this wayne, the anti-injunction act, which says that the court cannotç rule on anything until the stacks collected. i think this was an ideological move by ags because they didn't want to see president obama have a victory of any sort. match up that with the record
number of filibusters and you have got total obstruction across-the-board. i have to give credit to chief justice john roberts this is balls and stlings. he didn't go down the route of commerce clause but a taxing entity. they can't rule on it until the tax is collected. this is a big deal. he was fair. he was clearly fair. a big vick victory for the obama team, 30 million americans didn't have insurance before, young students on their parents' policy. i think easier for the romney camp to run on. the at bea ma'am campaign will say we were with the people all along, it is interesting, reconciliation is how this law was passed and upheld by the supreme court. more theater and conversation there. >> ed, if we talk about this in football terms, president obama being the quarterback, how many yards with the organization gain
with this supreme court decision? >> you know, i think that they are in the red zone. it is not the perfect bill this isn't what liberals wanted, they wanted universal health care you didn't get a seat at the table. wanted public option. that was never in the deal. ç they did get an opportunity to set upn the future ex-changes in states that is going to lead us down a road, as more people get familiar with this to just how good it's gonna be. it is going to get more people covered, save billions the next 20 years this is going to be better outcomes, as far as healthy outcomes for this country and i think the american people are going to see it for what it is. a big political play by the right-wing to stop this in its tracks because i think though know how big a move it s >> official word from eric cantor's office, try this repeal vote on july 11th. want to go to democratic
congressman chris van hollen from maryland. he joins us to talk about this sir, a lot of political capital spent on trying to make sure this happened for the american people. certainly from your own stake in things what is the message for you coming out of this and do you think this is a validation of sorts for the obama administration and your democratic congressional colleagues? >> i think it is a validation of the administration, not because they did such a great thing, which they did but because of the impact on the american people. a big fight, disappoint bug not surprising that house republicans are talking about another vote to repeal health care which means repealing all the protections that are already in place for people, kids who can't be denied because of pre-existing conditions but also to repeal the provisions that will take place, lower health care costs and expand accessç
all americans. dispinting but not surprising given everything in the republican house is political these days. >> what is your reaction, the mood for your colleagues there? >> people are very pleased. obviously you this was a much anticipated decision, it was hard fought. the good news today, we take one argument away from them, their claim that it was not constitutional. i think we have to be laying out the law. so much demagoguery from republican opponents, an opportunity to really take a fresh start on part of the argument and discussion with the american people this gives a boost into that discussion. the bottom line, a great win for the country and the american people. just to remind everybody, we are
watching the shot right there on your screen, mitt romney is going to be taking that podium at 11:45. speaker boehner, john boehner is supposed to also be delivering his reaction any moment as well. were watching that. the president is expected to deliver his address to the american people coming up at 12:15. nbc's kristen welker standing by live for us at the white house. kristen, a lot of people talking about how mitt romney watched this from his room at the washington hilton to get th ruling from the supreme court. what do we know about how the president heard about this? it was his daily briefing time, correct correct? >> 10 a.m., vice president and the president in the oval office when this ruling came down, the white house was watching this very closely all morning long. i have been speaking to officials here at the white house the past several days say the president has been thinking how he might respond to the three possible rulings that we were expecting to come out of the supreme court. right now probably tweaking the
remarks given the complexity of the ruling that came out. as you have been talking about, clearly a vindication of his first year in office and first term, political capital trying to get this law passed. his big challenge is to sell? to the american people, according to the latest nbc news, wall street poll, 37% of respondents said that they wanted to see this health care law overturned. 22% said they wanted to see is upheld. 39% had mixed feelings. he has to explain to the american people why this is a good thing. we note individual measures within this health care law are quite popular, things like preventive care, allowing young adults to stay on their parents health care plan until 26,
people aren't denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions. if you ask the white house why they weren't more successful send selling this to the american people, they say they were outspent, 3:1. theç president now has the challenge of trying to explain this. this will undoubtedly be an issue this election year. hearing from eric canter, he has scheduled a repeal vote for july 11th. this is something they will rally around. anticipating the president's remarks, expected to come at 12:15. >> melissa, as you are listening to that i want to you put on your professor cap for me, we are hearing there from kristen the president has the chance now to resell this to the american people. because of the backing from the
u.s. supreme court, isn't it more likely that it is the president a president's obligation to sell this to the american people have them fully understand the taupe of this, what means, not just today or next year but the county moving forward, 25, 30 years down the line? >> i like that two different pieces of president obama, president obama in this moment, responsibility of directing the country. the other is president obama for candidate ruing for office. he has a responsibility and opportunity in terms of representing this health care bill. now health care law, constitutional determined, the first is to explain what it is in the clearest language possible.ç one of the things republicans have done less as well create the language immediately what you are talking about when you say that. i'm hoping part of what the administration is ready to do is to say this is about your kids
staying on as young adults, people already ill able to get insurance. talk about the preventive health care measures in the bill. the other piece is politically, behooves him to explain to the american people if he makes it clear to people why this is so important, why it is so beneficial, then those who begin this work of trying to repeal it look as though they are standing in the way of something that benefits their own constituents. that is the greatest kind of political strategy the admin station has. >> waiting for to deliver remarks in a couple of minutes. ed schultz is still with us from washington, d.c. how would you sell it?
what would you say if you were the president trying to get people not only to understand this but to buy into it for america's future? keyword, thomas, is sell. the best way to sell is testimonial. bring someone forward denied coverage before this bill. bring a young person forward trying to get into this economy and needs health care coverage under their president'sç plan. to bring someone forward, been sick and through bankruptcy because they didn't have insurance. this is gonna be an easy sell for the obama team and one they will tee up easily because this affect millions of americans and i think there's going to be millions of americans sprinkled out over the country, in every district and every time a republican goes back and starts talking about repealing this, they are going to meet these people face to face and they are going to be forced to ask the question, answer the question, why do you want to take away my insurance? look, they are scared to death
over this, because this does set the table for an expansion of universal health care down the road. ted kennedy told president obama, get what you can get. this is a classic of getting what they can get e and setting the table for some good outcomes, bringing the cost down, controlling costs, getting more people covered. and it's also, i think, really, in a sense, gonna put the romney campaign in a tight spot from the standpoint that they are gonna run against obama care, an easy bullet point, but they are going to be continually asked, okay, going to take this vote to strike it down, what's your plan what is your plan? mitt romney has not been definitive ken when it comes to what he wants to done education, what he want does in business, tax cuts, can't even score his own plan, what he wants to do with immigration, seen that play out the last few days. so, now then he is for i'm repealing it. the ninth week of july or july
9th, that week, come forward and say this is what iç would do. he has not been able to do that. so, this is going to be a real change in the campaign, if you have got a winner and then somebody trying to unseat a winner. >> for people uncomfortable by the idea of a mandate, federal government telling you what you need to do, what is the best way to sell that to the american people, people that recoil when they think of big government being that involved in their lives and u.s. supreme court found a way to put it in lives through a tax? >> i think the american people are used to that kind of stuff. outside, a different jurisdiction, what about car insurance? what about liability insurance? whathome home owner's insurance? we have mandates forret ettfor
fuel in this country. the fact is this is a moving against a problem that is butchering our economy and that is health care costs in america. this is going to help out small businesses because there's going to be more people playing into the pools. and so, look, i'm a believer moving it forward, i'm a believer in better outcomes. i think that's the admin stat 'n of the obama campaign is going forward. if you tell somebody if they get sick, they won't have to face bankruptcy that is a common sense move forward. >> for this question, like folks who have an initial reaction over around against the notion of mandate, all they got do is go back and borrow mitt romney's own language from 2006 that said the individual mandate is about personal responsibility. conservative americans who do not like an overreach of government, have anxiety and concern, particularly about the federal government, the one thing they do like is the notion of personal responsibility.
the one thing they will get on board with over and over again is the sense that, look, if i'm sick, i shouldn't have to cst my neighbors tens of thousands of dollars in my emergency room bills. so, if you sell this as personal responsibility, listen, americans, in order for us to collectively bring down the cost, in order for us to make a health care access system that is reasonable, then every person here has to do like tough take care of your own kids and buy your own groceries, you have got to buy health insurance because it is a matter of personal responsibility. if i was on the president's team, i would be telling him, sell it, sell it, sell it as an individual, personal responsibility clause for those americans who don't like the noti of an individual mandate. >> bring up a really great point and is a soundbite from 2006, that the american bridge 21st century group found of governor romney of massachusetts talking about this. guys, do we have that cued up? play it for everyone, as we wait for governor romney to come out.
he is supposed to speak any moment with his repeal and replace obama care podium there in washington, d.c. if we have that, we can play it and remind everybody exactly what melissa is talking about. do we have that soundbite from 2006? we don't? okay. all right. never mind. melissa told us what the sound bite was. no worries. we are working here without a net so to speak. we are waiting -- >> and without commercials. >> waiting for the fact that mitt romney is talking and john boehner decided not to give remarks, he was going to call out what was giving his reaction for to be determined at a later date. i imagine he is going to be speaking after the president, after mitt romney. ed? >> well,
definitive plan, take this vote, if they're going to have any credibility with average thinking americans. that's my take. i think americans want solutions right(nnw. they're sick of the obstruction. they're sick of allhe bickering in washington. take in a vote to get rid of obama care doesn't mean anything
to the american people in my opinion unless you're partisan. the average thinking middle of the road independents are going to say, okay, what's your plan, how are you going to do this? this shouldn't blindside anybody. president obama campaigned on this from day one. he wanted to do something in health care. i know former senator byron dorgan went in and talked to president obama early in his administration, said, you know, i think you ought to go jobs. the economy is going to be important and president obama said, we're going health care. because if we go health care, it will be a generational move, help generations to come and move the dime when it comes to health care costs. one of the first shows i did on msnbc when i was hired back in 2009, i pulled out my wife's health care bill, wendy and i, i pulled out our health care bill and showed how much our prices and income, our premiums had gone up over the last five years. and i made the correlation, how do middle class families keep up with this?
how do you -- you know, 20% increase every year. that means your rate's going to double in five years. okay? and so how can american families handle this? how can small businesses handle it? the best way to handle it is to get everybody covered and to get everybody into the system, to get a greater pool and it's going to give us a chance to bring expenses down and get better outcomes. you know, the other thing that doesn't get much attention in the health care bill is the preventative care measures. the preventative care measures are going to makeç us a healthr society. if president obama had this mapped out long before he took the oath to the oval office, and he didn't expect this kind of a fight -- >> i want to jump in real quick. mitt romney just showed up. >> the supreme court's decision, and i agree. what the court did not do on its last day in session i will do on my first day if elected president of the united states. and that is i will act to repeal
obama care. let's make clear that we understand what the court did and did not do. what the court did today was say that obama care does not violate the constitution. what they did not do wases say that obama care is good law or that it's good policy. obama care was bad policy yesterday. it's bad policy today. obama care was bad law yesterday. it's bad law today. let me tell you why i say that. obama care raises taxes on the american people by approximately $500 billion. obama care cuts medicare, cuts medicare by apprimately $500 billion. and even with those cuts, and tax increases, obama care adds trillions to our deficit and to our national debt. and pushes those obligations on to coming generations. obama care also means that for up to 20 million americans, they
will lose the insurance they currently have, the insurance that they like and they want to keep. obama care is(a job killer. businesses across the country have been asked what the impact is of obama care. three quarters of those surveyed by the chamber of commerce said obama care makes it less likely for them to hire people. and perhaps most troubling of all, obama care puts the federal government between you and you doctor. for all those reasons, it's important for us to repeal and replace obama care. what are som of the things that we'll keep in place? and must be in place, reform, a real reform of our health care system? one, we have to make sure people who want to keep their current insurance will be able to do so. having 20 million people, up to that number of people, lose the insurance they want, is simply unacceptable. number two, got to make sure those people who have pre-existing conditions know they'll be able to be insured
and will not lose their insurance. we also have to assure that we do our very best to help each state in their effort to assure that every american has access to affordable health care. and something that obama care does not do that must be done in real reform is helping lower the cost of health care and health insurance. it's becoming phibitively expensive. and so this is now a time for the american people to make a choice. you can choose whether you want to have a larger and larger government, more and more intrusive in your life, separating you and your doctor, whether you're comfortable with more deficits, higher debt that we passed onto the coming generations. whether you're willing to have the governmenéç put in place a plan that potentially causes you to lose the insurance that you like or whether instead you want to return to a time when the american people will have their own choice in health care. where consumers will be able to make share choices as to what kind of health insurance they want. this is the time of choice for
the american people. our mission is clear. if we want to get rid of obama care, we're going to have to replace president obama. my mission is to make sure we do exactly that. that we return to the american people the privilege they've always had to liveheir lives in the way they feel most appropriate. or we don't pass on to coming generations massive deficits and debt. where we don't have a setting where jobs are lost. if we want good jobs and a bright economic future, our ourselves and for our kids, we must replace obama care. that is my mission. that is our work. and i'm asking the people of america to join me. if you don't want the course that president obama has put us on, if you want instead a course that the founders envisioned, then join me in this effort. help us. help us defeat obama care. help us defeat the liberal agenda that makes government too big, too intrusive and is killing jobs across this great country. thank you so much. >> former governor mitt romney there talking and delivering his remarks to his reaction of the
supreme court ruling saying he agrees with the dissenting opinions that voted in favor and ruled that the affordable care act is constitutional and the mandate will stand. ed, your reaction to this? >> well, i think mitt romney needs to walk down the street to the congressional budget office and get his facts straight. this is not going to blow up the deficit. this is not going to be a greater expense to america's budget. this is going to bringç down costs. that's exactly what the congressional budget office, the nonpartisan investigative arm of the congress for budgeting has stated time and time again. this is why the mandate being upheld was so important because if they didn't do that they wouldn't be able to sre the bill. they scored the bill that's going to save this country billions of dollars. i don't think mitt romney got the memo. that's a great talking point. the next thing mitt romney signaled to us, this has become the focal point of his campaign. he thinks he's been handed the golden turkey to carve up day after day. i think we're going to hear a lot about health care in this
country. we're going to reinvigor the debate on both sides. i can't wait for the first debate. but, you know, he says that it's going to put the government between the doctor anpatient? no. this health care bill brings the patient and the doctor together. that's what this does. this covers millions of more americans. and it's also interesting that he says that, well, we have to make sure in our plan that we take care of people with pre-existing conditions. well, guess what? that's a democratic idea. so mitt romney, in a sense, is all over the place. he's not factual. and once again, he's off his rocker. >> one thing the cbo, as you point out, they say the law is expected to spend a bit over $1 trillion in the next ten years. law spending cuts and tax increases are expected to save or raise a bit more than that, win is why the cbo estimates it will slightly reduce the deficit. it goes on to say the savings projected to grow more quickly than the spending. the cbo expects the law will cut the deficit by $1 trillion in
the second decade. >>ç lots of stuff going on at this point. inaccurate in this conversation. one, when mitt romney talks about bringing down the cost of insurance, nothing -- he knows as a businessman -- is more likely to drive down the kinds of costs than greater competition. more people in the market looking for products. drive that cost down. mitt romney knows that if he's a great businessman. you know, the other piece of this, the idea that people will be kicked off, that they'll hate their insurance, look, when you look at what the people of massachusetts say, about romney care, a policy which is nearly idtical on a state-base level to what this does for all americans, people in massachusetts love their romney care. and so what i would expect is that most americans give them five years are going to be extremely happy with this. and the final thing is, every time mitt romney says, let's go back, let's go back to this other time in america health care, he's going to lose that argument. americans don't think that our past was a reasonable standard for our health care. we know that the system is broken. we are looking for, as president
obama would say, to go forward. >> my thanks to all the guests that joined me for this hour. ed schultz in d.c., melissa. we're going to send it down to alex wagner hosting from washington, d.c. i expect a good hour out of her. it's a big day in d.c. vindication is the order of the hour at the white house. the supreme court upholds the president's signature piece of legislation. and change is alive of 33 million americans in the process. for the young, the poor, the sick and even the well, the affordable care act is no longer a question, but indeed, quite possibly, the answer. it's thursday, june 28th, and t&is is "now." joining me today, msnbc political analyst david corn of "mother jones," msnbc political analyst and former rnc chair, the